Posts by The Rebel

6

The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion"

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

when growing up in a "proper" j.ws household:-.

a) our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.. b) to hold to jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.. c) what we believe we hold it to be true.. d) in terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.. anyway i am not sure where i am going with this o.p?.

i guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with jws has proven more challenging than i realized.

The Rebel

I find it very sad that a parent can say to a son/ daughter who is disfellowshipped:-

" look how much we sacrificed for you, when you were young, now you have forced us to shun you"

In my opinion a parent should always say :-

" You did what you feel right. We do and will always love you. We can not shun you"

However if a son/daughter is shunned by parents, they may find it hard to honestly say to a parent " You have done what you feel right, shun me, but I will always love you"

So too clarify my O.P. I am trying:-

A) To understand the factors that make people believe things.

B) To understand how a belief system can influence people to do things I think immoral.

And most importantly, self examination:-

C) In what circumstances am i still capable of living with " false" knowledge that will cloud my " moral attitude?

And my conclusion is we are all challenged in life. We will all believe " false" knowledge and we all do things " immoral" even to our own standards.

6

The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion"

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

when growing up in a "proper" j.ws household:-.

a) our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.. b) to hold to jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.. c) what we believe we hold it to be true.. d) in terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.. anyway i am not sure where i am going with this o.p?.

i guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with jws has proven more challenging than i realized.

The Rebel

Hi Smiddy,

Smiddy :- "did I understand correctly your O.P?

The Rebel. I don't think you did?

My point is JWs morals are often based on what they believe is correct. Therefore their attitude and feelings to life are dictated by this belief. What they believe as good I believe to be bad. This is because I now have a totally different moral compass to when I was a witness. But trying to reason my moral disagreement with a witness is often futile, because we believe a different truth and therefore have different morals.

However my O.P was to :-

A) highlight that whilst I judge JWs as having a low moral standard, I can also sympathize how the indoctrination process has clouded their judgement.

B) When I trying reasoning with people and to change what I perceive as incorrect " truth" and " morals" I can understand why I am met with limited success. Culture, religion and various other factors can cloud a persons thinking.

6

The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion"

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

when growing up in a "proper" j.ws household:-.

a) our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.. b) to hold to jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.. c) what we believe we hold it to be true.. d) in terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.. anyway i am not sure where i am going with this o.p?.

i guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with jws has proven more challenging than i realized.

The Rebel

When growing up in a "proper" J.ws household:-

A) Our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.

B) To hold to Jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.

C) What we believe we hold it to be true.

D) In terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.

Anyway I am not sure where I am going with this O.P?

I guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with Jws has proven more challenging than I realized. In order to explain this I illustrated my point with those born in . But the same argument can be used on any convert of a belief or moral system.

This brings me back to my O.P " The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion" and by so doing I hope it leads to greater understanding of why debating with some posters can be futile.

My conclusion is it is not always that a poster is deliberately argumentative, when they fail to offer convincing reasons to justify a belief or moral opinion. The trick is to know when we are not going to convince someone on the validity of our argument.

13

I have a big nose...

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

surprisingly whilst hating being born with this over large nose, women have fallen in love with my nose.

so with regards to look and charm, what i hated about my physical attributes, many women have found attractive.

anyway i just wanted to say what we find unattractive about ourselfs, doesn't necessarily mean others do.

The Rebel

surprisingly whilst hating being born with this over large nose, women have fallen in love with my nose. So with regards to look and charm, what I hated about my physical attributes, many women have found attractive.

Anyway i just wanted to say what we find unattractive about ourselfs, doesn't necessarily mean others do. In fact it could be our main asset.

12

Are their " wishy, washy" congregations...

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

it may be an amazing thought for many but i am sure " wishy, washy" congregations exist.

i am referring to congregations where the elders are idle in enforcing the g.bs guidelines on control.. i mean let's face it the organisation is an authoritarian regime, that works only if the elders enforce complete obedience to watchtower policies.

sadly in the congregations i was associated with the elders excelled at enforcing loyalty and obedience.. however with age, people mellow, elders can become more compassionate, even assume the voice of reason?

The Rebel

Thanks for the replies.

UnshackledTheChains:- that was an informative post, sadly " wishy washy" congregations can " shackle and chain" outsiders to a " powerful controlling publishing corporation"

Actually that's the way most " interested one's" become part of a controlling publishing corporation. The other way is sadly those " men" who see the hate in the organisation, the position of power they can obtain, and they quickly become " company men" ministerial servants quickly promoted to elders. Sheep in wolves clothing.

40

Do you air on the side of caution?

by compound complex in

well, that would be an airer.

it's all in how we hear the spoken word.

when a little boy, one fellow thought "world peace" was "whirled peas.

The Rebel

As a child I invented the word " syritherous" This was a magical word and I used it on many occasions.

Headmaster " You are on the verge of a caning"

The Rebel :-" It was very " syritherous" of me and I am sorry"

Headmaster " Well don't let me see you in my office again"

........

An elder trying to help me be more humble, assigned me with helping with toilet duties.

The rebel:- " My doctor has said I have a " syritherous" phobia to disinfection materials"

.....

I think we should all have a word in our vocabulary that doesn't exist. It rarely enters some bodies mind to ask what " syritherous" means.

12

Are their " wishy, washy" congregations...

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

it may be an amazing thought for many but i am sure " wishy, washy" congregations exist.

i am referring to congregations where the elders are idle in enforcing the g.bs guidelines on control.. i mean let's face it the organisation is an authoritarian regime, that works only if the elders enforce complete obedience to watchtower policies.

sadly in the congregations i was associated with the elders excelled at enforcing loyalty and obedience.. however with age, people mellow, elders can become more compassionate, even assume the voice of reason?

The Rebel

It may be an amazing thought for many but I am sure " wishy, washy" congregations exist. I am referring to congregations where the elders are idle in enforcing the G.Bs guidelines on control.

i mean let's face it the organisation is an authoritarian regime, that works only if the elders enforce complete obedience to Watchtower policies. Sadly in the congregations I was associated with the elders excelled at enforcing loyalty and obedience.

However with age, people mellow, elders can become more compassionate, even assume the voice of reason? When this happens Watchtower " hatred" will become repressed in that congregation,

So in conclusion:-

A) Has anybody been associated with a congregation where elders haven't stood down, but have seen the error of their ways?

B) Are their congregations that believe in reason and discussion where members aren't controlled by emotional blackmail?

19

Being homosexual in a JW house hold

by Jean in

i could not find a topic about this if there is one ooops.

it is hard to speak with my mother or any other witnesses about this, their response is "its ok to be gay just don't ever 'act out.

acting out = being with someone even if its a healthy consensual legal relationship between two adults its still wrong.

The Rebel

Jean, It's sick and sad if " love" is not understood.

Jean you have started an " O.P" and a perception of a person I admire...it's only so sad that not only the J.Ws but society is still flawed and judgmental.....I was once part of that culture, I am ashamed.

115

Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

by aboveusonlysky in

jw
friends

we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

has such a thing been tried before?.

https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

The Rebel

This O.P was started only 24 hours ago and has 89 replies.

Why?

My guess is shunning is a touchy and sensitive subject, particularly if we come from " God's organisation" and have grown up to believe shunning is acceptable behavior.

Anyway I have posted 1489 times on this site, and never used the word " fuck," but if shunning permeates tenderness and fatherly impulses I as a father of a 12 year son will use that " f" word again

In conclusion does a father really need a law to prevent him shunning a son?

115

Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

by aboveusonlysky in

jw
friends

we're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?

has such a thing been tried before?.

https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .

The Rebel

Nobody is forced to shun. It just takes courage and love" NOT" to shun. A petition to make " shunning" mandated is like a petition to make " courage" and " love" compulsory.